Jason! ([info]jason0x21) wrote,
@ 2006-10-05 10:03:00
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Entry tags:human, humanities, liberal arts, read a book, sulks like achilles in his tent

Latest offense: Talking about our firemen.
I was taking with [info]spkorb the other day about the fact that an education rich in humanities and liberal arts (you know, the kind people used to get) theoretically leaves us with an idea of what it means to be human, what other people think it means to be human, and how people explore the human condition through the arts and humanities.

When you cut that out of education, you eventually end up with people that insist that it's not necessary, don't want that level of introspection, or simply don't get concepts like metaphor and irony. Best quote (from the last link, emphasis mine):


In the complaint filed against the school by Alton Verm, he listed each objected item line by line, complete with individual page numbers. Besides bad language and violence, Verm lists "downgrading Christians" and "talking about our firemen" as reasons the book should be banned. The school committee is expected to meet about
[the book Fahrenheit 451].
I don't need to tell you that Bradbury's calling the guys who burn books "firemen" is probably one of the easiest jokes (for lack of a better word) to get in the book. What I feel is being lost here is simple: people who aren't exposed to a wide range of arts and humanities (and I'll dispense with arguments about "canon", because they're stupid and useless) with concepts like metaphor, irony, sarcasm, etc will simply not be able to think in those ways. They don't have the practice, model, or language.

The Bible is a rich source of metaphor and exploration of human nature through parable. Many of the people who insist on taking it literally, literally (I believe) cannot conceive of it any other way. I'd say these people need to be dragged, kicking and screaming no doubt, into the 21st century, but it's the 20th century rigor of a (so called) classical education I think I'm looking for. This may be a culture war, but the foot soldiers of conservative movement do not know that they're fighting for (essentially) ignorance (I believe their leaders do). Once again, more and better education is the key.

Islam was a religion long before it was twisted and permuted away from expression and introspection. The various radical sects show beyond a doubt that banning certain ways of expression leads to an inability to reason clearly about abstract (and not so abstract) concepts, and from there it's only a short hop to seeing every cartoonist as an actual threat to the very underpinnings of the religion. The Christian book banners are no better, seeing the book burners in Farenheit 451 as an actual affront to real, current firemen, and seeing a book which uses magic as a stand-in for puberty/popularity/teen-angst (a metaphor which has led to actually funny SNL skit. Some might consider this evidence of the miraculous in our lives.) as an occult recruitment tool.

I'm not saying people should dispense with that silly "religion" thing. But introspection and exploration of the human condition are sort of the point of spirituality. Duh! I'm also not suggesting we turn these folks into brie-chomping avant-garde aficionados. I'm really only asking for these people to read, and think, and read some more. Read everything you can, look at all the art you can, watch all the movies you can. It's ok, it won't hurt you, really. A little Sun-Tzu, a little Shakespeare! Read a book!



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[info]z_kungfu
2006-10-05 02:11 pm UTC (link)
Yes, you are so correct. I was going to say you were right but can't in the present political climate.

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[info]susan_z
2006-10-05 02:41 pm UTC (link)
You've just articulated the thing that most concerns me about radical evangelical Christian homeschooling. i've also come up against this mindset in workplace acquaintances, and it's usually a baffling and frustrating experience for the other party and myself, both.

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[info]jason0x21
2006-10-05 03:05 pm UTC (link)
What makes it worse is that, while learning new ways of thinking can be fun as a child, it's extremely uncomfortable as an adult; so everyone's job is much much harder the longer it goes on.

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[info]meep
2006-10-05 03:15 pm UTC (link)
I don't know - it's a lot more fun as an adult. Because when you're a kid, everything is new. Coming across something new as an adult is kind of like a breath of fresh air.

That is, if you like new things. Shiny!

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[info]jason0x21
2006-10-05 03:28 pm UTC (link)
If you're the type of person that likes learning new things as an adult, you're probably not the object of this post in the first place.

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[info]meep
2006-10-05 03:16 pm UTC (link)
Looking at your tags: who stole your slave girl?

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[info]jason0x21
2006-10-05 03:27 pm UTC (link)
Tsk, it's even worse, it's a reference to The Tick!

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[info]selki
2006-10-06 04:20 am UTC (link)
Handy!

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[info]meep
2006-10-06 10:10 am UTC (link)
Well, that's something I would not have caught. I can catch only the most blatant Tick refs (such as SPOOON!)

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[info]zombiepops
2006-10-05 04:04 pm UTC (link)
I think I know why the fundamentalists are so afraid of expanding the humanities. As you point out the bible is a fantastic source of metaphor that has been basicaly in use (in the KJ version, which seems to be the definitive english translation) for nearly 400 years (in the case of the KJ). They are all fine with reading the bible, but if they get the bible read in school, how hard is it going to be for jews to get the torah in schools, hindus the vedas, the islamists the koran, so on and so forth. From there kids are presented with the idea that maybe their christian upbringing isn't the only way, and start to question their faith. And the modern american church seems (hell) bent on preventing anything that causes people to question their faith. They are afraid of the competition.

i'll probably have more to rant about this later... like how our schools seem intent on sucking the life out of what little literature is left in them.

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[info]babbleon1
2006-10-05 04:49 pm UTC (link)
Amen, brother!

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Gimme that old time education
(Anonymous)
2006-10-05 11:08 pm UTC (link)
Quote:
I'd say these people need to be dragged, kicking and screaming no doubt, into the 21st century, but it's the 20th century rigor of a (so called) classical education I think I'm looking for.

The 20th century brought us the Butler Act, then the Scopes Monkey Trial. I say bring those who oppose supporting the Humanities back to the rigor of the Age of Reason. Maybe skip that French Revolution part. That was rather nasty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial

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Re: Gimme that old time education
[info]sylvia_wrath
2006-10-05 11:11 pm UTC (link)
Sorry folks, I wasn't logged in. doh!

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Re: Gimme that old time education
[info]meep
2006-10-06 10:25 am UTC (link)
Unfortunately, the stupidity cannot be educated out of a person.

I'm sure Mark Twain said something to that effect.

You can get them "right" with regards to evolution, and then they start spouting dumbass crap about homeopathy or Feng Shui. And try to tell you that it's explained by quantum mechanics. Some overeducated dunces to that effect once gave me a copy of the Tao of Physics, which just made me puke.

Of course, as far as I know, nobody is arguing that homeopathy or Feng Shui are being taught as true in public schools (unlike the various systems that keep sneaking in Creationism). I could be wrong.

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[info]elsacapuntas
2006-10-06 04:07 pm UTC (link)
I'm not saying people should dispense with that silly "religion" thing.

I am! Down with religion! Personally, I think the reason religion ends of eschewing open philosophical thought is that it ends up challenging the basic tenets of religion, including the existence of god. Even when religion allows itself to be subject to modern scrutiny - i.e., if there's no evidence of god, should we believe there is a god? - it places "Faith" as a point at which you can go no further. When people say things like "faith is what makes me believe in god, even without actual evidence of god," i see the concept of faith as a philosphical road block masquerading as spiritual fortitude.

However, I think good science education has the ability to encourage open thinking and logic-based discourse as much as a humanities education. of course, good science education is notoriously lacking from american secondary schools.

Thanks, jason, for letting us get all philosphical on you.

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[info]jason0x21
2006-10-06 05:50 pm UTC (link)
I think one can believe in (a) God(dess)(e)(s) without it being a barrier to learning new stuff. I think faith (with or without a capital "f") is something that can develop and evolve over time. I think the people that take their religious texts way too literally are the victims of indoctrination by other people, and not the victims of the religion itself. I think religions that become rooted in doctrine are useless.

And (to go bad to the original post), I think good science education is impossible without a good humanities education. Because you can throw all the science at someone you want, but without them having the capacity to place their religion in the context of human existence (which includes an ability to both believe in God and Evolution/Big Bang/What have you), you're still faced with "God said it. I believe it. That settles it."

You will not convince those people with science alone.

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[info]psychocosm
2006-10-06 10:55 pm UTC (link)
The best thing you can do then is to breed - breed like little rabbits. Stop living in that theoretical world where you've been practicing sex and get down to the real nittygritty! All of you. Korbs, Sullivans, yaddayaddayadda. They won't let you join the PTA unless you have rugrats. Then implement change. Lead by being the role model of irony and metaphor that you are. (Well, you know.)

i was reminded of an article by my man, Mark:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2006/09/29/notes092906.DTL&nl=fix

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